[quote="BruceCadieux":25f9m1tj]You used to be able to buy Mandrake, Redhat, openSUSE, Linspire, and some useless utilities that were always years behind at Best Buy, Circuit City, and Staples. Then a massive marketing machine that used call Linux a "cancer" once again applied pressure, and coercion, via illigal abuse of monoploy powers and low and behold all those products disappeared from the shelves.[/quote:25f9m1tj]
Source that sites MS using coercion, or any other illegal method, to force BestBuy, Circuit City, or Staples to remove Linux from their shelves?

[quote:25f9m1tj]As for openSuSE being 4 gigs indeed it is, but unlike the zoobuntus you get to choose which desktop you want to use during installation, you get to choose what software will be installed and what won't if you want to do that,[/quote:25f9m1tj]
When it comes to downloading 4GB does make a difference. Not everyone has broadband, if fact a very small percentage of the overall population does. Even some that do really don't (who really things 768kb is broadband?) It would take days to download over dialup.

[quote:25f9m1tj]but best of all it is ten times the distribution that ubuntu is.[/quote:25f9m1tj]
Here's where things get confusing. You are obviously a fan of SUSE, but not once have you really stated why. If Linux is so great, and they are all based on the same kernel, why is SUSE so much better than all the others? If this is an MS vs. Linux debate I would think you would just be happy that people were trying Linux no matter what the distro.

[quote:25f9m1tj]Or perhaps you just want to do a net install, download a minmal boot disk and it will pull in everything from the internet during install, http://software.opensuse.org/114/en[/quote:25f9m1tj]
Again, not an option for dialup users.

[quote:25f9m1tj]Or perhaps you would like to try one of the other suse derivatives, like
MangOeS
Smeegol
Latest Marble Live CD
Linkat

Or perhaps you might want to try their enterprise solutions http://www.suse.com/products/desktop/[/quote:25f9m1tj]
Again with the SUSE.

[quote:25f9m1tj]Personally I don't recommend live CD's for installs or even testing as they don't give you nearly the great experience you will get with a DVD install which once installed will be 1/4 the disk space that a install of windows 7 would be,[/quote:25f9m1tj]
I have 1.5TB. A few GB isn't going to make or break me.

[quote:25f9m1tj]and you get a hell of a lot more usefull software for free, not trialware, not 30 day trials, or crippled restricted pay for moreware, ........................Just great software, free of charge.[/quote:25f9m1tj]
That is a matter of opinion. Good software? Maybe, but there is some great software that I use that has no open source equivalent.

[quote="BruceCadieux":3rlhr6m4]You don't have to download only a 4 gig DVD, in fact you don't have to download anything at all, you can purchase a boxed version if that is what you like, or you can purchase their enterprise editions. Just simply stating the obvious for folks who haven't really looked beyond the things/rumors they hear.

Yes I like SuSE, No I do not like Ubuntu. Yes they use the same basic kernel. You see the beauty is they can change code, customize kernels the way they want, and contribute code back upstream to the kernel maintainers for review and inclusion. Some distributions do indeed customize kernels, RedHat, SuSE, Ubuntu being just a few that do. Some push their changes upstream and are major contributes...................SuSE RedHat.

Some do an outstanding job customizing kernels, others do not.

I am not so much a SuSE fan as I am a KDE fan, no one does better with making a desktop environment work with a distribution than openSUSE does, so that is what I use. I used RedHat until they made their major GUI change, then tried a few other distributions until I settled in with openSUSE. Again choice is great, if I don't like the direction, or the way a distribution does things I can simply choose another.

The major difference between distributions like openSUSE, Redhat and Ubuntu derivatives are the attention to detail, features, options, utilities, integration, stability, reliability, polish of the finished product. There are many more of course but those three are the major players.

RedHat/Fedora is a good distribution with an outstanding set of tools, utilities, and options. It is fairly easy to make it look, behave, and run the way I want it to.

Ubuntu uses the Gnome desktop environment, and as many times as I have tested the gnome waters it simply doesn't work well for me and the way I want my desktops to work, and behave, throw in the fact that over a several year period gnome and more so Ubuntu have progressively and steadily removed more and more utilities, options, features,and using anything outside of their "official" gnome desktop aka Kubuntu has a thrown together, unhinged, disconnected feel and a poor set of configuration tools that forces a mish mash of gnome things that simply do not work as well as a distribution that takes the time to put as much effort into each desktop environment they put together.

openSUSE does a lot of work to make all the desktop environments they offer work seamlessly without having to mix in a bunch of utilities from different environments to have a fully functional tool set. Their gnome and KDE desktop environments which ever you choose work equally well, and work like they someone really cared when putting them together. Because well, because they did care.[/quote:3rlhr6m4]
Now, THAT is the type of information I wanted to hear - a well thought out and articulated response. It means so much more when there is a known reason to backup a claim.

[quote:3rlhr6m4]Well that is enough for now, I didn't realize that your "Linux" forum was such a hostile place for real Linux users to come to [/quote:3rlhr6m4]
Hostility is usually a two way street. Consider this... I know that this discussion has involved participants from the United States, Greece, Canada, and Australia (at least). Not everyone understands English and the subtleties of the language. I do, and I thought a few of the things you said were a little harsh toward MS and Windows users in general. Nothing that would have upset me by any means, but not everyone may have understood the same way. Your tone may not have translated well and your diehard stance may have appeared standoffish to some.

[quote:3rlhr6m4]I'll have peruse deeper into the Linux forum here to if I can find anything that actually has to do with "using" Linux outside of the the few Linux isn;t ready threads I first stumbled upon.[/quote:3rlhr6m4]
I truly hope you do. In fact I hope a thousand more knowledgeable Linux users do also. I would love to learn more about it myself and thoughtful discussions about the ins, outs, and merits for all to see would be a wonderful way to convince others to try it!

[quote:3rlhr6m4]Ooops I forgot to ask what this wonderful, great, software is that simply can't be replaced by anything else?[/quote:3rlhr6m4]
Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Lightroom, Stardock Fences, Photomatix, Roboform are some examples. Yes. I know there is software that will do some of the functions, but not the way I want it or they don't have the interoperability I need. Heaven forbid I have to give up Office!

[quote="BruceCadieux":7qlg9skz]Personally I do all my web site work in a text editor, but Kompozer works pretty well I hear, http://kompozer.net/[/quote:7qlg9skz]
I prefer using the DW app over a text editor because it's a one-stop-shop. I've tried Kompozer and it doesn't preview (internally) well and doesn't handle multiple users working on the same content well. There is also the integration with Photoshop and the display of dependent files. I work with several sites and those owners use DW. Unfortunately, sometimes I have to guide them through things so I would have to convince them to change as well.
[quote:7qlg9skz]Gimp I am sure you have heard of, and while many photoshop users struggle with anything else the gimp is incredibly powerful, http://www.gimp.org/ or http://www.gimpshop.com/[/quote:7qlg9skz]
Yes, I've heard of Gimp and used it in the past. It doesn't offer the seamless integration with Dreamweaver and lightroom.
[quote:7qlg9skz]Lightroom doesn't look to me to be anything special and digikam which is part of KDE would do, or showPhoto. http://www.digikam.org/drupal/node/325[/quote:7qlg9skz]
Again, seamless integration with photoshop and photomatrix. It is also missing automatic correction based on camera/lens used. I had a hard time finding a supported camera list.
[quote:7qlg9skz]It's funny that you bring up StarDock Fences as it is obviously ripped off directly from the KDE desktop, as that feature is built into the KDE Desktop and has been a for years now.[/quote:7qlg9skz]
Ripped off is a little strong. Every OS has borrowed features from another and we could go on about that for hours, but I do see that feature is available, which I didn't know.
[quote:7qlg9skz]Finally Photomatix web site FAQ says that software will run under Linux http://www.hdrsoft.com/support/faq_phot ... html#linux[/quote:7qlg9skz]
Yes, but there is no integration with Lightroom because there is no lightroom.
[quote:7qlg9skz]Hugin combined with Gimp will handle your HDR image work. http://hugin.sourceforge.net/ http://www.gimp.org/[/quote:7qlg9skz]
Nice to see.

[quote:7qlg9skz]Now comes the part....................it isn't difficult, it is just different.[/quote:7qlg9skz]
I didn't say it was difficult, per se. There are many differences, but the killer for me is the lack of cohesion between the apps that provide the functionality I use. Say I have GE appliances in my kitchen, but you tell me I should move to Kenmore so I buy a Kenmore refrigerator. I put the Kenmore refrigerator in the garage. It still works, but while I'm cooking I have to go the the garage every time I need something from the refrigerator. Not a good analogy, but the best I could do at the moment.
[quote:7qlg9skz]When people are not willing to to try different, that doesn't mean the software is difficult, it means they are being difficult.[/quote:7qlg9skz]
How, exactly, can you say someone is being difficult because they don't do things your way? The great thing about the computer and software industry at this point in time is that we have choice. I respect your choice to use Linux.

Now, with that said... Someone who doesn't have this much invested, time wise, would be wise to look at these alternatives.

I don't want to even think about how many hours(days) it would take to migrate my photo collection of 8 years!
[quote:7qlg9skz]I can't help but keep chuckling about the Stardock fences things It is funny to see a windows user saying the would have to have something like that when it was ripped off directly from Linux. [/quote:7qlg9skz]
Thank you. Thank you. I'll be here all week Folks. Don't forget to tip your waiters and waitresses!

Familiarity does play a part, and it's quite likely that someone with no previous exposure to alternative operating systems would regard Linux as being the bees knees.......simply because they have never experienced anything better and there would be zero basis for comparison.

I thought Zig's friend summed it up very nicely.