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Pros and Cons of Linux on the Desktop
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BruceCadieux
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July 25, 2011 - 8:02 pm
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All together under one umbrella is simply not the way open source works. It is the way proprietary systems work. Under one umbrella would have killed off Linux many years ago.

As far as "desktop" systems go, tablets are as much a desktop as netbooks are, in fact they are pretty much replacing them.

As far as marketing goes. Novell aka SuSE and RedHat do a great job at marketing in the enterprise market. They focus on the markets where they can make money, without spending their whole budget advertising.

The simple fact remains they they don't have the budgets to advertise against the latest iJunk/iGadget or enough money to pay off and coerce OEM's Microsoft style.

And everything I have read from them they simply are not interested in those markets.

The great majority of distributions don't have money, and the developers contribute because they enjoy working on the projects, money isn't always what motivates these people.

Now I am in a "Linux" forum here. It is/was the Windows users who are in a "Linux" forum attacking Linux. Should someone such as I just sit back and for the sake of being one of the sheeple just agree with everything? Or should I say what I believe and state my points?

spin 360 --- ------ -----Remember, the person you are addressing is using Linux and posting in a "Linux" forum and by attacking these institutions you are, by association, also attacking me and the choices I have made.....it is entirely counterproductive mate.

That said I am not pushing a Linux barrow, I am happily riding in a Linux Ferrari. I will leave the wheel Barrows to the windows folks who have so much baggage to cart around. ( HUMOR )

If someone is really interested in how easy Linux is to use, all they need do is state what exactly they find difficult and I will show exactly how easy it is to do what they find difficult.

I contend, Linux is not difficult, just different, being different is not difficult.

Anyways, I hope someone has a specific example of what they find hard/difficult, I will do my best to show that it isn't.

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Jim Hillier
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July 25, 2011 - 8:26 pm
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Oh Bruce, you do disappoint me.

Please point out to me where anyone here has "attacked" Linux in anywhere near the same terms you have used with reference to MS, Windows and Windows users in general. We have, in the past, merely expressed our opinions on some of Linux's perceived shortcomings, particularly with reference to possible reasons why Linux has not garnered a general acceptance among the masses. We have never attacked Linux nor its users in derogatory terms and we definitely do not view this as an

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BruceCadieux
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July 25, 2011 - 8:58 pm
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The minute someone compared Linux to MSDOS and suggested if one can't connect the dots there was something wrong.............was the minute Linux was attacked.

It is an insult to compare a modern operating system to the extremely poor example that MSDOS is/was, in fact MSDOS was so bad comparing anything at all to it I would deem an insult.

Most of what I see in such threads is simply misinformation or FUD. It really is.

Folks try whatever the latest bandwagon distro is for a few hours, days or weeks, and get disappointed when it isn't an MS clone.

I usually tell them they are better off using what they want, WINDOWS.

They want an OS that works with their proprietary "windows" software, they want it to work with their proprietary games.................................... telling them that there are alternative applications and methods to get many windows apps working is useless. They want "WINDOWS". That is what they should use. Because they want "WINDOWS" they will say Linux isn't ready

When I am using Windows, I don't complain that my rpm files can't be installed and that windows asks me to install real player Or that a MAC DMG file is not even understood, or a .deb is just some strange thing to be wondered about. I don't complain that compiling things from source often results in nothingness. I don't complain about how lame .NET is. I just use it and do what I can within it's extremely limiting functionality.

You see the most common complaints about Linux are actually not about Linux, but are about people wanting a Microsoft Clone for free, and when that isn't what they get, they say things like it is difficult, it is awkward, it doesn't run their software, it isn't "WINDOWS".

I say to them you haven't really tried Linux, and you don't have a willingness to try and learn new ways of doing things.

If they did, they would discover as I did many, many years ago that not only is Linux ready, but it is far superior in so many ways that it impossible to list them all.

If some folks have some specific requests about things they find difficult in Linux I would gladly show how easy they are.

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Jim Hillier
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July 25, 2011 - 9:13 pm
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Bruce,

Seriously, talking with you is akin to banging one's head against a brick wall. You do seem intent on adopting the 'best form of defense is attack' strategy.

[quote:1goo1exm]The minute someone compared Linux to MSDOS and suggested if one can't connect the dots there was something wrong.............was the minute Linux was attacked[/quote:1goo1exm]
That was posted [b:1goo1exm][i:1goo1exm]after[/i:1goo1exm][/b:1goo1exm] your initial submission from which I extracted the excerpts and was in response to those earlier comments made by you.... .....sheesh!!

Seems you are unwilling to make any concessions whatsoever Bruce and are more interested in playing a game of one-upmanship.

This competitor just left the arena. Not beaten by any means, merely frustrated into submission.

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BruceCadieux
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July 25, 2011 - 9:21 pm
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What concessions?

I merely ask for specific things people seem to find difficult. Haven't seen any specifics yet.

But to use your own words Nuff said!!!

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Chad Johnson
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July 26, 2011 - 10:37 am
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Whoo!!

From an Enterprise perspective: you can't beat Microsoft. Linux inherently has problems with single sign ons, Active Directory integration, central group policy, etc. LInux is great for servers - configuration can't be beat, security is awesome, but from the desktop side, users want to get things done. And the tricks to make it all work when you can pay Microsoft and have it work means from the Enterprise perspective Linux on the desktop is dead.

There are many applications that do not function on Linux without emulating, virtualizing, or cajoling. Adobe Photoshop is a big example, Desktop Publishing software, Enterprise systems galore all support Windows and/or Mac.

Enterprise I believe accounts for roughly half of the desktop market (I believe that trend is slipping upward as more home consumers are going tablet / laptop only). So why isn't Linux higher on the consumer side? Much of it is availability -- a consumer will buy what they see and if they don't see Linux they won't buy it. But even if they buy Windows from Best Buy, go home and put Linux on it - where do they go for support? Best Buy won't help them, they can't get on the Internet because plug and pray didn't work and now they can't get online to search for forums or help. Who do they call?

Add to that the diversity of distros - which is both Linux's strength and one of it's larger weaknesses. There are dozens of distros that are custom tuned for nearly any need -- but the average user doesn't know where to start. They install one, and find they don't know how to use things. Even if they commit to using it for three months (the average learning curve in the USA is 2), most users will be to the point where they are accomplishing things -- but in many cases state that it was easier the old way.

And therein lies the largest problem - people by their very nature will compare things to the way they've always done them. Mac converts compare to Windows, Windows converts compare to Macs, and Linux converts tend to compare things to what they came from. That won't go away, it's human nature.

Could Linux be ready for the desktop? Maybe, but I'm not sure why it wants to at this point.

--Zig

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BruceCadieux
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July 26, 2011 - 4:32 pm
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Wow, I will fire off some emails to RedHat, and SuSE immediately and inform them they are dead

SLED? SLES?

http://www.suse.com/products/desktop/

Amazon, Chrysler, IBM, Google, HP, Lenovo, Numerous European and Asian Governments, Numerous Eastern European Governments, the United States Government......................and on and on.

Probably should inform all of them they have made a grave mistake and their projects are dead.

Have you seen IBM's supercomputer spanking all them Jeapordy guys? Yep It is was SuSE Linux running on that.

I will format my hard drive immediately as I am obviously wasting my time and getting nothing done.

Of course Linux is ready for the desktop. It is running on four of my desktops right now.

I have very capable software, nope it isn't windows software, but then I am not using windows, so I don;'t want windows software.

GimP oustanding imagige software, SCribus an outstanding Desktop Publishing app, Blender is incredible, all "FREE" of course, Enterprise options Microsoft could only dream of providing. Active directory is actually easier to set up on a Linux machine then it is on a windows 7 machine. http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/0 ... ctory.html

Your using the wrong Linux distribution if you have to perform "tricks" to make it all work, but if you instast on "paying" someone, you can pay SuSE or RedHat, and they will gldaly take your money and get everything working for you.

Or you could purchase directly from vendors like HP, Samsung, Lenovo, Dell, IBM, MicroStar. http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?s ... agemode=ca

Again I say if you choose to use windows, that

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Chad Johnson
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July 27, 2011 - 9:01 am
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Ah ha. I see the mis-communication now.

Of course Linux is ready for the desktop.

Users simply aren't ready for Linux.

What would you recommend be done to combat Microsoft and Apple's stranglehold on the desktop marketspace?

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BruceCadieux
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July 27, 2011 - 8:45 pm
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Nothing just let things play out. That's all use what you enjoy using.

I love choice, many people do. However the great majority use whatever comes pre-loaded on their computer. They don't even know anything else exists outside of the bubble they are placed in.

Bubbles go POP eventually

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Flying Dutchman
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July 27, 2011 - 8:59 pm
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@BruceCadieux
Just out of personal curiosity: What exactly was your motive to come to this forum and sign up?

I am human

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BruceCadieux
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July 27, 2011 - 9:08 pm
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I read the tips at PcPitStop TechTalk, and noticed DaveComputerTips posting there, so I popped on over and found the forum. I saw a bunch of people in a particular thread saying things I thought were wrong, misinformation, and thought I would like to join the conversation. I hope that meets your requirements?

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Flying Dutchman
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July 27, 2011 - 9:32 pm
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Wow, you do seem inclined to be offensive.
I asked you a simple question out of pure curiosity, so please, take it down a couple of notches.

Over and out.

I am human

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BruceCadieux
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July 27, 2011 - 10:03 pm
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Well I am a member of many forums and have never had anyone be so rude as to ask what is my motive for joining a forum.

What is your motive for asking such a thing?

You guys have a pretty strange forum here. Can't say that I have ever seen one quite like this, it really is pretty interesting.

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Chad Johnson
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July 28, 2011 - 12:04 am
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[quote="BruceCadieux":3huxi6tt]Nothing just let things play out. That's all use what you enjoy using.

I love choice, many people do. However the great majority use whatever comes pre-loaded on their computer. They don't even know anything else exists outside of the bubble they are placed in.

Bubbles go POP eventually [/quote:3huxi6tt]

And to date, Apple has been ready to swoop in with the Ipad / Iphone / IDevice to pick up the slack. Android is making inroads in the phone market, but many people are getting frustrated and moving to Apple or Microsoft devices.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with Linux -- desktop or otherwise. I don't run it because Civilization doesn't run under Linux. But that's my choice.

I say Linux isn't ready for the desktop because the progress has been so slow after 20 years. And everyone I run into who has casually tried it compares it to Windows / Linux. That doesn't make it bad, that doesn't make it inferior, it simply isn't the product that the public is willing to use.

And some bubbles last longer than others.

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BruceCadieux
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July 28, 2011 - 4:53 am
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Ziggie,

You just said what I have been saying all throughout this thread.

People use whatever comes pre-loaded on their computers, and use it because that's what most other people use ( sheeple). Who of course use it because it came pre-loaded on their computers

I don't think you have been really paying attention to Linux if you think it's progress has been slow for the past 20 years. It is the most versatile, most advanced operating system out there unencumbered by restrictive and archaic EULA's.

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