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Firefox 4 - anyone got an opinion yet??
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Jim Hillier
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April 5, 2011 - 9:17 pm
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Okay, thanks for the heads up Frank......much appreciated.

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Flying Dutchman
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April 6, 2011 - 4:48 pm
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I just made another unpleasant discovery.
If you choose to manually update all your addons at one go, after the initial search, the procedure goes straight to downloading the updates and then ask you to either restart or undo - so two more things are gone:
- the intermediate step to allow/ initiate the download itself, and
- the choice to exclude one or more of the found updates.

Conclusion: if you want more control over addons updating, you'll stuck with updating them one by one?

Maybe I should stop playing around with it

I am human

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Jim Hillier
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April 6, 2011 - 5:09 pm
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[quote:19xqhpla]Maybe I should stop playing around with it [/quote:19xqhpla]
LOL.....no, don't do that FD. You are such a font of information!

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frankdarden
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April 6, 2011 - 8:41 pm
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ozbloke, I did it, and it works. What more can I say?

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Flying Dutchman
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April 9, 2011 - 6:43 am
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The future of Firefox looks more and more bleak.
The [url=https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Roadmap#Firefox_5:2rfqx006]Firefox/Roadmap[/url:2rfqx006], under "Firefox Front End", states for Firefox 5: "Remove Smart Search functionality from Bookmark Manager".
Who in their right mind thought this to be a good move?

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Flying Dutchman
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April 10, 2011 - 6:37 pm
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A couple more of discoveries:
If you use the Keyscrambler extension:
1. When you close Firefox, the Keyscrambler icon does not unload from the tray, so every time you start Firefox another one is added in the tray. Only way to clean that up is to hover over the tray area with your mouse.
2. The extension some times loads as inactive (its icon in the tray is yellow). If you click away and back to Firefox it changes to green, so not sure if it works properly.

Firefox 4 shows pages differently than previous versions. For example, I have to zoom out twice for SpamCop's pages to show as with Firefox 3.6.16.

Sigh

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Chad Johnson
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April 11, 2011 - 9:23 am
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The 'appears until you hover over it' feature usually indicates the app crashed in some way...

--Zig

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David Hartsock
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April 12, 2011 - 6:24 am
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I'll throw my .02 into the discussion here...

I've been using FF4 since before the RC and I think it's an important improvement over FF3. Most of the improvement is under the hood with the new rendering engine and html5 support, which will be coming faster than you think.

I think Dutchy (I love that, hope he/she doesn't mind) brought up the fact that he/she didn't like the new interface. Well, every time there is any change to an interface this argument pops up, and I understand where it comes from, but we must remember that GUI improvement is an ongoing thing - just a few years ago we were typing every command in text on a black and white screen. Most everyone was ecstatic with the improvements of XP over 95/ME, but when Vista came along the complaints came it - Too flashy, can't find anything, why did they do this or that, and many others. However the Vista GUI was improved and fine tuned in Win7 and, to be honest, in my own opinion Win 7 is light years ahead and I wouldn't want to go back. It took a little getting used to, but I like it a lot. Same with Office 2007/2010. Give it a serious try and I'm talking days not hours. At the very least the developers of FF have given us the ability to really customize the UI, and you can't say that about many programs/developers. I personally have moved the stop, reload, and home buttons back to the upper left.

Tabs on top/bottom - try TabMixPlus. You can put them where you want and control just about everything else about a tab. Bonus - my favorite is double click a tab to close.

Status bar missing - try Status-4-Evar. I really missed it as I use several addins to monitor the site, debug pages, etc and their displays resided in the status bar, where I could monitor everything at a glance.

There were some comments about Mozilla forcing addin developers to clean up their code. I welcome this. There were a lot of addins that had and/or caused serious problems and (even though it wasn't Mozilla's fault) it showed poorly on Firefox. Firefox's best feature is its' addin base, but this is also their achilles heel. They can't limit what you add or how many. Anyway, well written addins will perform better, introduce less security holes, be easier to maintain, and be easier to troubleshoot.

My one gripe is memory usage. There appears to be a decent memory leak, but I leave FF running for days with many tabs open so that doesn't help. It doesn't bother me to restart it every few days - not that I'm running out of memory, but I'm kind of anal like that.

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Flying Dutchman
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April 12, 2011 - 4:13 pm
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I couldn't resist after reading Dave's post - by the way, glad to see you're doing better (assumed so by the lengthy post).
As for "Dutchy", I replied in another thread.

Back to Firefox 4.
[quote:3i9m279c]he/she didn't like the new interface[/quote:3i9m279c]
Actually, I don't like the way it tries so hard to look like Chrome. Good thing, I can make it look like Firefox.
[quote:3i9m279c]Give it a serious try and I'm talking days not hours.[/quote:3i9m279c]
Can't blaim me about this one, I've been trying out Firefox 4 since it's betas (final seems a cut down version of them), never giving up version 3.6.x as my main browser.
But to be fair, I should say up front that I do belong to the ones that didn't appreciate the drastic changes MS did with the OS after XP or with Office. Call me old fashion, but I prefer functionality over eye-candy any time - I do appreciate a decent amount of eye-candy, but it shouldn't be on the expense of functionality. And that's how it feels with the recent changes in Firefox GUI.

I agree with you on the "under the hood improvements" - they seem to be doing serious work on this level.
But...
[quote:3i9m279c]GUI improvement is an ongoing thing[/quote:3i9m279c]
Would not mind so long as they're truly improvements, i.e. not just mimicking eye-candy, but changes that really improve the way I can use/ work with the app. If I have to spend lots of time to learn almost everything over again or in the end find out something's no longer available, I'm sorry but that doesn't fall under "GUI improvement". So, the point I'm trying to make is that the new GUI doesn't bother me on the "looks" level (UserChrome.css & lots of themes to fix that), but on the "usability" level.
[quote:3i9m279c]At the very least the developers of FF have given us the ability to really customize the UI, and you can't say that about many programs/developers.[/quote:3i9m279c]
True and false. Firefox 4 comes with no Chrome folder (clean install), so the ability to customize through UserChrome.css and UserContent.css (which cost you the least on RAM & CPU) seems, at first glance, to be taken away.
[quote:3i9m279c]try TabMixPlus ... try Status-4-Evar[/quote:3i9m279c]
Well, exactly. Why should I need more addons to have/ do something that was natively there and for some reason I can't comprehend was taking out? IMHO, it should work the other way around. Here's what I don't get:
1. Firefox is customizable through addons.
2. Addons cost you speed & resources (RAM & CPU) and competition is ahead of you on these.
3. Mozilla takes out functionality that forces end users to get more addons, i.e. more cost on speed & resources.
4. End users complain about functionality and the extra cost.
5. Mozilla looks for ways to fix things, including asking addon developers to make their addons less resource demanding.
Looks like a vicious circle to me.
[quote:3i9m279c]my favorite is double click a tab to close[/quote:3i9m279c]
You get this function natively in K-Meleon, which is a gecko engine based browser, i.e. you could (should?) have it in Firefox too, but instead you need an addon.
[quote:3i9m279c]There were some comments about Mozilla forcing addin developers to clean up their code. I welcome this.[/quote:3i9m279c]
I welcome this as well and agree with everything you say. What bothers me is that they focus on the effect they have on "start up" time and that screams "Chrome rivalry".
[quote:3i9m279c]My one gripe is memory usage[/quote:3i9m279c]
So, what do you think of the plans to take out the "Smart Search functionality" from Bookmark Manager? Or the way addons are now manually updated? If a user changes his mind, he's already used his bandwidth by the time he's given a chance to cancel the update (not sure, but probably works the same way if you use "Ask me what I want to do").

Don't get me wrong, I seem to nag a lot about the latest Firefox, it's just that I'd hate it if my favorite browser ended up loosing its uniqueness and became just another browser.

[quote="Ziggie":3i9m279c]The 'appears until you hover over it' feature usually indicates the app crashed in some way...

--Zig[/quote:3i9m279c]
That's comforting to know.

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Mindblower
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April 12, 2011 - 5:26 pm
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The best feature FF offers, are the add-ons. This is something they were proud to mention. I say were, because certain add-ons did not work, with the official release. Betas and RC are expected to be a work in progress and incomplete. But, when problems appear with trusted add-ons (and not the new just of the shelf), this is bad.

I'll agree that change is always here and we need to adapt. What I do not tolerate, is a change from something that made the browse so popular (add-ons). Lighting speed, give me a break. A little slow due to add-ons, get a life. A tiny memory hog, when we have more gigs than needed, get real. Added security, greatly appreciated, Mindblower!

"Light travels faster than sound;
That is why some people seem bright until you hear them speak"

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Jim Hillier
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April 12, 2011 - 5:40 pm
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FD - You have to bear in mind that browsers involve big bucks; the more successful the browser the more money to be made. At the moment, the big browser developers are concentrating on outdoing one another for market share and not so much on what might be best for the end user. Although on the face of it, what's best for users and any potential market gains would seem to go hand in hand; they appear to have lost site of that fact for the moment as they are consumed by the battle of oneupmanship.

Did you read the article in the DCT February newsletter entitled 'The Great Browser War'? You can read that [url=http://www.davescomputertips.com/newsletters/2011/february.php#article7:1mxkxih7]HERE[/url:1mxkxih7].

Firefox has lost ground to Chrome, over the past 12 months in particular. Not significantly but enough to make the Mozilla developers sit up and take notice. Indeed, Microsoft has also emulated some of Chrome's more popular characteristics [with IE9] and for the exact same reasons.

So I agree you have a very valid point [ignoring changes perceived to be for the worst - which is somewhat subjective]: Although there are definite benefits for the end user, with improved standards and rendering speeds, browsers are indeed losing their individuality and we appear to be heading for a generic set of browsers which all look and act pretty much the same.

I also agree with you that by playing this 'anything you can do I can do better' game, Mozilla are tending to disregard the fundamentals that made Firefox so popular in the first place.....the emergence of Chrome has certainly shaken things up!!

Cheers.....Jim

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attitude3910
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April 13, 2011 - 3:50 pm
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I installed it. It took a day or two to get used to using it (finding options, bookmarks, etc), but I like it! It is uncluttered and gives a LOT more window space. The only one thing I missed was the status bar at the bottom, but there is a Firefox add-on for that too.

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beyondallken
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April 13, 2011 - 4:37 pm
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Well so far I like what has happened to Firefox, but I have a problem which may or may not be related to the change.
Previously if a site offered a PDF file it would open automatically. Now it seems to go through the motions, but stops with a blank page ? Anyone else finding such a problem ?
If I run Explorer on the same site it works fine.

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Flying Dutchman
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April 13, 2011 - 4:59 pm
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@Jim,
[quote:2vdmaonz]what's best for users and any potential market gains would seem to go hand in hand; they appear to have lost site of that fact for the moment as they are consumed by the battle of oneupmanship.[/quote:2vdmaonz]
[quote:2vdmaonz]I also agree with you that by playing this 'anything you can do I can do better' game, Mozilla are tending to disregard the fundamentals that made Firefox so popular in the first place....[/quote:2vdmaonz]
You managed to communicate what's bothering me in the best way I could think of.

@beyondallken
It looks like PDFs are not associated correctly in Firefox.
Please check the following:
1. Go to Tools>Optionss>Applications.
2. Scroll down the list until you find "pdf files".
3. What is Firefox supposed to do with them?
4. If it doesn't say "Use xxx" (where xxx should be your PDF reader), you need to change that by clicking on the drop-down arrow to choose it. If your PDF reader is not listed, click on "Use other", it will pop up a small window where you can search for your PDF reader and make it the default program to handle PDFs on the web.

Hope this helps.

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NevilleT
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April 13, 2011 - 6:40 pm
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I am going through the adaption process for the new user interface and cannot see why I have to do this. The old interface worked fine for me. Could they just give us an option to use either interface? Let me choose the "Classic" version if I want. Have not noticed any speed increase although I just upgraded my laptop so only ran the prior version for a few weeks. May be difficult to compare.
On a related topic, Roboform did not work and when I checked their site they told me I had to buy their new version. Fortunately I did some more digging and found you could actually get around the limitation with some simple tweaking. There are links on Google that tell you how to do it. Naughty, naughty Roboform

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