It's Linux Time!

Avatar

Please consider registering
Guest

Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_topic_old
It's Linux Time!
Avatar
smallhagrid
Member
Forum Posts: 22
Member Since:
August 12, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
February 25, 2012 - 9:59 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Yep, it really is Linux Time now !

Besides the fact that LOTS of desktop users are already dropping them for tablets running Android as their 'daily driver' - and speaking as a die-hard win-doze user myself...It's (finally) Linux Time !!!

What do I mean by that...well...Android IS Linux, but aside of that I'll tell a wee story:

I've a friend who is around 80, and he's been a win-doze user since v3.1 - and with some help he is now a Linux user, and LOOOOVES it too.

He's using the ZorinOS in the premium version (it's reputed to be best for helping the win-doze users switch).

With the exceptions of things he needed some help with (he totally does NOT get what files are !) he is using it every single day now for months very happily and with zero trouble.

BTW, there's been very little command-line stuff needed, and for that I've mostly used copy/paste in the terminal window with great ease.

( http://zorin-os.com/ )

I've tried Zorin in the basic version and agree that it is good, but I'm also good with most desktop Linux distros and have been goofing around with them for years too.

I also tried the Ultimate Edition 2.9, and found it pleasant, but still somewhat lacking.

http://ultimateedition.info/

Their site's been up & down alot lately, but now 3.0 is out so I might give that a spin too.

My 2 cents for anyone who'se felt 'trapped' in a closed source, proprietary OS:

Try Linux, it's really quite painless, and could be alot of FUN too !!!

Both distros mentioned herein have their roots in other well established distros like Ubuntu & Mint.

Avatar
Jim Hillier
Admin
Forum Posts: 2492
Member Since:
August 9, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
February 26, 2012 - 12:33 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Hey - Tried out ZorinOS via live DVD. Liked what I saw so was keen to install (on second internal HDD) and then write an article to publish on the blog. The installation kept freezing at exactly the same point during the process, over and over again. Tried wiping and reformatting the drive, tried a different drive, even tried a different (older) machine, same thing - just froze, and at exactly the same point every time.

 

Couldn't get it to install so in the end I just gave up on it. A shame!

 

Cheers...Jim

Avatar
smallhagrid
Member
Forum Posts: 22
Member Since:
August 12, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
February 26, 2012 - 10:34 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Wow, I am sorry to hear that Jim.

The only trouble I had with Zorin myself was a bad download one time.

Other than that, I even stuffed it into a low-spec netbook quite easily via USB and it works admirably; threw it right into an older desktop PC too and neither so much as hiccuped.

My old friend's PC took the premium version easily as well.

Perhaps you got a damaged download somehow ?

Did you check the MD5 ?

With some distros lately I have seen them linger for an unreasonably long time trying to detect (and mount ?) the hard drive/controller. I just walked away and did something else - and when I returned they'd be past it...this has happened with maybe 5 totally different ones recently.

Of all the distros I've played with this one impresses me as being good for getting folks easily into Linux - and just yesterday there was a favorable write-up of it on some site that I saw (I forget which one though, sorry).

My personal gripes with Zorin:

I do not care for the fact that the Zorin folks call their required fee for their premium version a 'donation'; nor how they provide zero mirrors for it when it is a DVD-sized download.

Further, when I asked for a detailed comparison of the free vs. pay versions I got a totally snotty response saying they have no time for such things as they are 'too busy getting Zorin 6 ready for release'...but that was like 2+ months ago and not only is it NOT yet out, but there is no mention of it that I've seen anyplace.

Being 'too busy' to help interested users is simply not wise IMO.

The other side of that is that the $15 it cost my friend has proven to be very well spent indeed...

 

Best Wishes.

mark

Avatar
Jim Hillier
Admin
Forum Posts: 2492
Member Since:
August 9, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
February 26, 2012 - 6:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hey Mark - I forgot to mention, I did actually re-download the ISO and burn a fresh DVD. I had the same thought as you - maybe a bad download or bad disc. No such luck, still froze at exactly the same point.

 

I don't believe it was going through a long winded process either, the whole thing just froze; no response from mouse, all buttons/options grayed out, no apparent hard drive activity. One time I actually left it in that state for around half an hour, came back to the machine and it was still the same.

 

I will try again at some time, probably after the next major version is released.

 

Thanks for you input here mate, much appreciated.

Cheers...Jim

Avatar
smallhagrid
Member
Forum Posts: 22
Member Since:
August 12, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
February 26, 2012 - 8:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Sorry to hear of such difficulties Jim.

Your post brought to mind that I also downloaded and tried a bunch of distros around that time with similar results - and actually re-downloaded a couple for the same reasons...

One which failed that way repeatedly was Mint; the others were JoliOS, 2 different versions of YLMF, and PCLinuxOS.

I attributed their boot failures to h/w incompatibilities for the most part even though I used the same desktop, notebook and netbook for all my trials; some worked, some didn't.

Worthy of note here as just plain cool runners-up have been Nimblex, Puppy and DSL; they all have very good ideas, but aren't ready for what win-doze users really need in terms of ease of use IMO.

Also IMO, the solid winner of the Grandpa test is definitely the Zorin premium version, so I hope you'll have a better time with that OS sometime soon and that maybe you'll find it as agreeable as I have.

BTW, the old feller is also using Lotus Organizer via WINE on his ZorinOS powered PC and it was a cinch to install (just a bit quirky to open, but no big deal really).

Just FYI:

For me this is a very serious subject because I am looking to the 'after-XP' time; I've set a boundary which I plan to solidly adhere to=> when the time comes to ditch XP there will be NO more ms OS for this guy.

I drew a line at 'ME II' (AKA veeester) and will not cross that line, period. There will be no 'sebben' or 'ache' numbered OS in my PCs; that train didn't stop at my station and is just not welcome here.

As a result, I have an actual NEED to find which OS is -next- for me and at that time I'll likely make the leap 100% into the Linux realm for good.

Best Wishes.

mark

Avatar
Mindblower
Montreal, Canada
Member
Forum Posts: 411
Member Since:
September 17, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
February 27, 2012 - 5:54 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I tried out an Linux version, Open Suzie (something like that) and had bad installation problems (freezing)  like Jim.  I too, reformatted the HD, new fresh install, d/l new copy, tried different computer, etc...

 

If there are going to be problems with the installation, hate to say it, but it will discourage others from trying any Linux product.  What truly is the down side, I wanted to give myself a break from Windows, as XP is being terminated in 2014, and what I see of the current Windows, does not impress me.

 

But, if Linux has problems installing, what other problems might we expect, Mindblower!

"Light travels faster than sound;
That is why some people seem bright until you hear them speak"

Avatar
smallhagrid
Member
Forum Posts: 22
Member Since:
August 12, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
February 28, 2012 - 12:27 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Mindblower, Open Suse is just ONE amongst HUNDREDS of freely available Linux distros.

Have you visited Distrowatch.com ? Too many to choose from, perhaps ?

There is a helpful, nifty distro chooser quiz here: Lx Distro Chooser .

I've had installation problems too - it's no big deal IMO - just grab and try another 'flavor'.

Have you tried Ubuntu ? Perhaps the free Zorin core distro ?

Either one would be a nice place to start for a win-doze user from what I've seen.

As to this:

  I too, reformatted the HD, new fresh install, d/l new copy, tried different computer, etc...

 

 Win-doze users have been more or less brainwashed into the crazy idea that 'installing it again' magically changes how code works - it doesn't though.

Linux users depend upon the amazing amount of community which they can easily reach - and whereas win-doze was made by a single company with just so many people, Linux is a planetary effort with almost unlimited numbers of supporters - and as such any questions I've had have been easily answered.

 

As to the below:

If there are going to be problems with the installation, hate to say it, but it will discourage others from trying any Linux product. 

ONLY if they try ONE distro, then GIVE UP !!!

 

The below is a HUGE misunderstanding which is HUGELY common:

What truly is the down side, I wanted to give myself a break from Windows, as XP is being terminated in 2014...

 

'Terminated'  ??? Absurd. Incorrect as well.

The m$ -support- ENDS when they dictate and NOT the OS itself !!!!!!!!

What often ends is driver applicability for NEW hardware - meaning - you buy a new MB and there are no drivers for some OSs put out by the companies - but the Linux community makes their own, usually, as a matter of comparison.

Back to win-doze and the ending of support:

I know not even one single man or woman - even those who paid the insultingly high 'support fees' - who called m$ and -actually- got useful, helpful 'support'. Ever.

Usually those same folks either found their own answers on some free internet forums, or hired a local 'wizard' who knew how to fix their problems.

And some "dead" OSs are just better than anything newer=> I personally know 2 businesses which run win2k as their servers, with ZERO trouble, loooong after m$ said it is 'ended'; I would also still be running win2kpro myself as my main OS if it weren't for some application s/w requiring XP. (It was not a move I made willingly or happily.)

Therefore, my closing thought is...:

 

But, if Linux has problems installing, what other problems might we expect, Mindblower!

 

None, necessarily=> but one must also not assume that a single experience means that ALL will be the same, nor that Suse Linux somehow represents ALL Linux OSs; as it certainly does not.

Best Wishes.

mark

Avatar
Mindblower
Montreal, Canada
Member
Forum Posts: 411
Member Since:
September 17, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
February 28, 2012 - 5:05 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Yes smallhagrid, I'm aware there are several other versions of Linux out there.  Found Ubuntu less user friendly, and more command line oriented.  A very informed source spoke highly of Open Suse, that's why I tried to get it working. 

 

Users should demand any o/s to install correctly, promptly, and without problems like freezing.  Users should also not have to worry about tweaking an o/s to get it to work (out of the box).  Tweaking is done (or attempted after one is familiar, and sort of has some experience (knowing that there is an UNDO to all those tweaks).

 

I'm actually sad to hear you had installation problems.  But to dismiss them is wrong IMO.  As for getting help via forums, chats, it okay once you get it installed and them want to made changes, add or remove features.

 

Patience is something we all need more of, as frustration is the release of anger, Mindblower!

"Light travels faster than sound;
That is why some people seem bright until you hear them speak"

Avatar
smallhagrid
Member
Forum Posts: 22
Member Since:
August 12, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
February 28, 2012 - 5:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Mindblower, I have never had any OS that was perfect 'out of the box'; not ever - not even DOS.

All require some attention, most require serious tweaking to be personalized and/or friendly to each of us.

Several ? Oh dear.

I strongly believe that if someone today started at the very top of Distrowatch's big list, and tried every language-appropriate distro - they would NEVER have enough time left to check out every single one !!!

Sillier still is that not even all distros are there, and then there are other non-Linux things like BSD, which is said to be wonderful; and the other GUI-based OSs which have come around without much fanfare.

Frankly, if I could get it to run with all my existing hardware - printers too - I'd be happy for the most part with an ancient DOS-overlay called Geoworks for most tasks; have you heard of it ? ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeoWorks ).

Maybe in some kind of VM....?!

Best Wishes.

mark

PS: I enjoy tinkering with OSs, so none of this is a bother to me - while I do need ONE for my 'main' OS too.

Avatar
Mindblower
Montreal, Canada
Member
Forum Posts: 411
Member Since:
September 17, 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
February 28, 2012 - 7:00 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Well smallhagrid, I appreciate the patience you're extending.  The only problem(s) I've encountered with installing the windows , was a dirty (finger print) CD.  Cleaned the CD and the installation continued on perfectly.  As for DOS, each version from 3.x to 6.x went without any problems, and were installed on many computers.

 

So, when the computer freezes will I'm installing a Linux o/s with it's package of programs, it's a sad day (since it happened many times on more than one computer.

 

There is a difference between tweaking and customizing an o/s, and I hope you're not mixing the two together. 

 
There was an individual here who recommended Open Suse, since he claimed it was bundled with just about all the programs a new user would need.  Found Ubuntu had just a few programs, and having to do search for Windows based replacements is very time consuming (for a newbie). 

 I still have till April 8, 2014 (as I'm an XP user), and that's still the official cut-off support date.   I'm still in the market, so to speak, and a FREE o/s, (that installs correctly), might be nice, Mindblower!  Smile

"Light travels faster than sound;
That is why some people seem bright until you hear them speak"

Avatar
smallhagrid
Member
Forum Posts: 22
Member Since:
August 12, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
February 28, 2012 - 7:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Mindblower, what I seriously do not get here is...: 

So, when the computer freezes will I'm installing a Linux o/s with it's package of programs, it's a sad day (since it happened many times on more than one computer.

You mention "SUPPORT" like it means something=> but what SUPPORT options have you tried BEFORE condeming ALL Linux distros ???!

 Another option you've missed:

Found Ubuntu had just a few programs, and having to do search for Windows based replacements is very time consuming (for a newbie). 

Win-doze apps either run very nicely in WINE, or have simple, free replacements for Linux.

The only thing I haven't found to my satisfaction thus far is a Linux equivalent for Clipmate...

And the ZorinOS has WINE already built-in and functional.

 

Again I say:

 I still have till April 8, 2014 (as I'm an XP user), and that's still the official cut-off support date.

SUPPORT=> WHAT SUPPORT ?!?!?!

This is a meaningless, silly concept when it comes to win-doze; why do you INSIST that it is important AT ALL ?!?!?!

Best Wishes.

mark

Avatar
Jim Hillier
Admin
Forum Posts: 2492
Member Since:
August 9, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
February 28, 2012 - 8:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

I think you meant ...'anger is the release of frustration' MB, the other way round.

I've had installation problems too – it's no big deal IMO – just grab and try another 'flavor'.

It's not quite that simple Mark:

Not everyone has a fast connection and generous download limit. Distro download sizes are comparatively quite large, Ubuntu for example is around 700MB. Many users are not in a position to "just grab and try another flavor". Even those with middling connection speeds and fairly generous download limits are going to think twice - 'how do I know the next one will work' - 'is it worth all that time, trouble and effort to risk it again'.

The sheer numbers of distros can be off-putting for many prospective Linux converts. In my opinion it can be a negative, not a plus. Talking about your 'average' home user here obviously, to many of them the choice between hundreds of different flavors is terminally confusing from the outset.

Many will also follow a friend's or associate's recommendation of course, in much the same way as MB did. And if that recommended distro does then not install properly or misbehaves in any way, the chances of them looking at alternative distros would be practically zero.

Either way, whether the user makes their own choice or someone makes it for them, if the distro will not install or suffers some other serious flaw, the most likely outcome is that they will lose faith and not want to try again.

I've tried many distros down through the years, always with a view to dual booting. Still looking for one which fits the bill, for me anyway. It's been a pattern; someone in the know recommends a distro, I get all excited and try it out, I'm disappointed. Maybe I am too hard to please.

I installed a version of Ubuntu about 6 years ago, couldn't get a working internet connection. After much to-ing and fro-ing on the forum, I was informed that an update needed to be applied in order to fix the bug which was causing this issue. Talk about your catch 22 situation: download an update from the net to fix a problem where you cannot connect to the net. Brilliant! LOL A senior Ubuntu representative finally responded and admitted that Ubuntu should have scrapped that release, corrected the code and issued a fresh ISO. Instead, because the version was a fairly new release, they decided to try and fix it via an update. That experience turned me off Linux for ages.

Admittedly I haven't visited Linux for quite some time now. Then I come across ZorinOS and get pretty excited about it all only to discover that I cannot install the OS, no matter what I try - the pattern continues. I am an advanced user and recognize that these things happen so will try again - for your 'average' home user however, who has most likely already been viewing the process with a certain amount of trepidation, issues such as these often prove fatal (i.e. the first and last time).

I love the concept of Linux and the spirit of a non-proprietary environment. I would love to have a version of Linux installed on my machine. Unfortunately, I'm yet to find one which suits. And I certainly do not have the resources - time, download capacity, connection speed, etc. - to keep on trying available distros.

Avatar
Jim Hillier
Admin
Forum Posts: 2492
Member Since:
August 9, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
February 28, 2012 - 9:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Mark - I don't believe anybody is "condemning ALL Linux distros'. Merely pointing out that experiences with one distro can and do tend to reflect on Linux in general - human nature.

The other obvious element here is the "need" factor. Anyone who has single OS installed and is completely reliant on that for day to day operations will move mountains to fix a broken system. On the other hand, someone who already has a perfectly sound OS in place and is merely looking at a subsidiary or possible replacement is not going to put in anywhere near as much effort if/when they encounter problems. Most likely just shrug and fall back to their original OS. - again, human nature.

Support is an essential part of Windows, not having the ability to apply security updates to close vulnerabilities and better protect from malware is (IMO) critical. However, in the case of XP I agree that end of support is not actually such a big deal. XP is a very mature OS and after all this time should be bug free and probably about as secure as it can be.

The biggest issue will be with new hardware and drivers. Hardware manufacturers will eventually drop support for XP and stop issuing drivers. The OS will continue working just fine but when peripheral devices need replacing...

Cheers...Jim

Avatar
bobc4012
Member
Forum Posts: 1
Member Since:
March 5, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
March 5, 2012 - 4:28 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hi Jim. I did "P.S" on Marko's board, but since I could log in here, I'll reiterate, If you can find the time (or some friend who can download faster), try Ubuntu 10.04(.3). It is unfortunate that you had problems with the release you tried before (hopefully, not the 10.04 or later). I can appreciate some of the problems you have encountered and can understand the reluctance to try again. In all honesty, I have encountered problems too, probably as many as I have experienced with Windows over the years. I have Ubuntu 10.04 installed by itself on an old Toshiba (given to me), I have 10.10 installed in a Win. XP directory (Wubi install) on an Acer lap-top (also given to me - I am a repository for my family's "no longer needed" items and a "pack rat") and Ubuntu 10.04.3 and also Linux Mint 12, both installed on my new Win. 7 Desktop, using VirtualBox (my old system went kaput and this new one was really cheap). The Ubuntu releases used Gnome 2, while later releases use Unity (and you can install Gnome 3). One problem with the Acer lap-top is it uses Broadcom card for wireless and Ubuntu seems to have a problem with Broadcom cards (the ethernet connection was physically broken on the Acer lap-top). On the Desktop and Toshiba, the Ubuntu (and other distros) had no problem with the Ethernet connection. I picked up a wireless card adapter that fit into the slots on both lap-tops and Ubuntu handled them find. Personally, I have tried the new releases (using VirtualBox) and do not like the Unity nor the Gnome 3 I/Fs. Since Linux Mint is basically a "repackaged" Ubuntu distro, it suffers the same fate. For me, it is like going to Win. 7 from XP. I like the XP functionality and dislike the Win. 7 functionality. Too many irritants and annoyances (just for the sake of change?). Since MS is constantly sending updates (the bulk of them "security" updates), I find it hard to believe it is more secure than XP. I "snooped" around the directories and see many of the same XP modules - I'm sure some have been either tweaked or rewritten. BTW, a lot of other like Kubuntu too. I have downloaded the latest release, but have not yet installed it (I will eventually using VirtualBox). BTW, the reason why I suggest Ubuntu 10.04 (or Kubuntu 10.04) is because you can upgrade to 12.04 (coming in April) without a re-install. I'm not certain about Linux Mint 10 or 11. If you install 10.10, then you must go to 11.04, 11.10 and then 12.04 (or else do a  new install of 12.04). That is one other complaint I have about Ubuntu distros. Of course, going from 95 to XP to Vista (if you did) and then Win. 7 provides it share of grief too. Personally, there are some days, I'd just as soon go back to PC-DOS (or OS/2). I think if you reconsider, you might be pleasantly surprised. I find the performance to be as fast (running in Virtual or Wubi install) as running Windows (actually faster on my Acer lap-top). Besides WINE, there is also DOSBox (I use it on both Windows and Ubuntu - I still have apps from the 80s). In addition, there is a DOS Emulator on Linux that runs DOS stuff a little differently than DOSBox. While a few key Windows Apps won't run under WINE (e.g., Photoshop - of course, GIMP is available (both for Linux and Windows)), a lot of Windows apps will.  I use Notepad++ as my preferred editor with Linux (WINE). You can also install a lot of FOSS via the Synaptic Package Manager or the Software Center that is comparable to Window packages, e.g. Libre Office. Anyway, regards. 

Avatar
Jim Hillier
Admin
Forum Posts: 2492
Member Since:
August 9, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
March 5, 2012 - 9:48 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Hey Bob - Thanks for the encouragement and advice, appreciated!

I was very disappointed that Zorin would not behave but you have inspired me to give Kubuntu another go. I tried Kubuntu a couple of years ago and did like it. I much prefer KDE over Gnome.

Thanks again...Jim

Forum Timezone: America/Indiana/Indianapolis

Most Users Ever Online: 188

Currently Online:
15 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 10

Members: 1272

Moderators: 3

Admins: 4

Forum Stats:

Groups: 8

Forums: 19

Topics: 1538

Posts: 11824

Administrators: Jim Hillier, Richard Pedersen, David Hartsock, Marc Thomas

Moderators: Judy Novotny, Jason Shuffield, Mail Poet