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Jim Hillier
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July 23, 2009 - 5:25 pm
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I'm currently going through a support issue with M$...I can't access Microsoft Updates (as opposed to Windows Updates). Anyway, that's another story, the interesting thing (for me) is that one of the 39 steps M$ deemed necessary was to run their online OneCare scanner...which, as a process of leaving no stone unturned, I duly did. Firstly, be warned, the scanner runs for hours...not sure how long it actually took coz I ended up hitting the cot and leaving to its own devices but after approx 1 hour it had completed a measly 4%.

This thing not only scans for malware but also scans the registry for any errors, defrags the hard drive (if needed), cleans up temp and unnecessary data and checks for any open ports. Now here's the thing, the scanner reported that my hard drive had 172 registry errors and 33492MB of unnecessary data....yes that's 33492Megabytes!!

Now, I use CCleaner, Advanced System Care and Windows own Disk Cleanup utility as regularly as the next guy...these numbers do not put those products in a very good light. On the hand, M$ were so certain that all this data collection was needed they actually built the features into the OS in the first place...now, within barely 12 months and after regularly using generally recommended cleanup utilities, they are telling me I have 33492MB of [i:gc54ywpl]unnecessary[/i:gc54ywpl] data....go figure!!!

I guess life is just full of ironies.

cheers.....JIM

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David Hartsock
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July 25, 2009 - 6:04 am
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Did you let it clean up the 'extra' stuff? I would be interested in knowing what it did.

An MS security program, in my opinion, is like letting the fox guard the chickens - I stay away... Very far away.

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Mindblower
Montreal, Canada
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July 25, 2009 - 8:26 am
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You've opened the Pandora box ozbloke. I might be alone here (leaders often find themselves distant from followers ), but I shy away from almost any program the Microsoft offers.

Back in the DOS days, many extra safety improvements were a condensed version of third party utilities. Seeing this, it was no wonder why third party utilities were allowed to flourish. Then can Windows and M$ wanted to control (or blanket) the entire software market (almost like a bully).

Too bad there are those like me that remember my history very well. These third party utilities worked very well in the past, and for me continue to work very well in the present. One might also see a trend here, that M$ continues to patch things and make small improvements to weed out the other players (blocking their programs from working) along with their (so-called) security upgrades. This is just my opinion, Mindblower!

"Light travels faster than sound;
That is why some people seem bright until you hear them speak"

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Jim Hillier
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July 25, 2009 - 7:51 pm
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@Dave - Yes I did let it go ahead and cleanup....I must admit I did so with a certain amount of trepidation. I recognised the possibilities but in the end decided; I had asked M$ for their help and it would be rather defeating the whole purpose if I ignored one of their recommendations, particularly as it was very early on in the piece. It seems to have had no negative impact at all, the only thing I noticed was a couple of personalised/customised display settings had been restored to default.....took me about 10 seconds to put them back. I just wondered where the heck all that extra [i:2j95vpaq]unnecessary [/i:2j95vpaq]data came from?

@ MB - I concur in principle...M$ have indeed employed stand over tactics among other unsavory business practices but, I am not, generally, a Microsoft knocker in fact I actually admire a lot of what they have achieved for the home PC user and their massive contribution toward the proliferation of PC's in general.

cheers....JIM

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Chad Johnson
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July 27, 2009 - 8:50 am
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Dave, I disagree. MS [i:3o6ozgmm]security[/i:3o6ozgmm] programs are nothing like a fox guarding the henhouse.

It's having the hens guard the henhouse themselves...

At least with the fox guarding it, there's a chance to realize what you're doing is not wise.

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Jim Hillier
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July 27, 2009 - 7:54 pm
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A WORD FROM THE WISE!

Hey guys, not [i:1qd2gl5u]everything[/i:1qd2gl5u] which emanates from Redmond is bad, some of my favourite programs are from M$; I've always liked OE and now Windows Mail, Windows Live Mail is even better. Windows Movie Maker was buggy in XP but is great in Vista and the only full featured slideshow maker which is free. Windows DVD Maker is a real bonus, offering quality, ease of use and a professional finish. Windows Photo Gallery has it's limitations but is adequate and includes some nice simple editing features....I do prefer Faststone but still use some of Photo Gallery's editing features. Windows Calendar is also a very good app..........

As far as using the OneCare online scanner goes; In the end it has done no harm, in fact my machine seems to running better than ever. Anyway, do you really think I would go into it without having a backup image in place....my name is Hillier not Sillier

cheers....JIM

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Chad Johnson
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July 28, 2009 - 9:15 am
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I never said everything out of Redmond = bad. I only said I don't trust Microsoft to protect the product they opened vulnerabilities in in the first place. If they can scan for them, surely they can fix them.

For that matter though, I don't trust Apple to virus protect a Mac either.
And I don't trust Linux umm...ok, it breaks down there, but I wouldn't use a virus scanner on Linux from the same people who made my distro.

That's all.

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Mindblower
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July 28, 2009 - 10:04 am
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Ozbloke - Did I not say "You've opened the Pandora box"? It is nice (maybe even rare) to find out that there are still some like yourself who are happy (satisfied, whatever) with M$ products (other than those like me who just use their os). I put my trust in others who also supply free alternatives, Mindblower!

"Light travels faster than sound;
That is why some people seem bright until you hear them speak"

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Jim Hillier
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July 28, 2009 - 10:43 am
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Yes, well there are some good things which emanate from Redmond...security products do not number among them though, I do agree with Zig on that one. It is a complete irony that M$ provides security products to help prevent attacks through the vulnerabilities they created in the first place.

[b:3db22oqa][i:3db22oqa]"MS programs are nothing like a fox guarding the henhouse."[/i:3db22oqa][/b:3db22oqa]....Zig, we [i:3db22oqa]are[/i:3db22oqa] on the same wavelength, I realise now you were referring specifically to security products. Perhaps the word 'security' between "MS" and "programs might have made your intention/meaning a tad clearer and the statement less of a generalisation.

BTW Zig, just to clarify...the scanner was actually a 'System Scanner', the malware scan was just one part of it (out of 4) and could not be run separately.

cheers.....JIM

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Chad Johnson
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July 28, 2009 - 11:34 am
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well, if you're going to get picky...

i added security to the post, for clarity. now when future people come read this they'll wonder what you guys were arguing against.

seriously though --

Jim the system scanner problem is exactly the thing with most Microsoft products I have issue with. You will use it their way, or you don't use it. This system scanner is a great example. It has a malware scanner that cannot be run separately. Hoo-rah.

Then they have other products (Windows is a great example) in which you can do whatever you want to it and make it yours (until the next security patch resets your defaults....but I digress).

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Jim Hillier
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July 28, 2009 - 6:09 pm
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Sorry Zig, I didn't mean to be pedantic. Remember what you are dealing with here...an old bloke with the memory retention of a retarded goldfish!

I can recall something from 20 or 30 years back but, 5 minutes ago....forget about it!!!

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OldElmerFudd
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July 29, 2009 - 2:50 am
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I'm currently going through a support issue with M$...I can't access Microsoft Updates (as opposed to Windows Updates). Anyway, that's another story, the interesting thing (for me) is that one of the 39 steps M$ deemed necessary was to run their online OneCare scanner...which, as a process of leaving no stone unturned, I duly did. Firstly, be warned, the scanner runs for hours...not sure how long it actually took coz I ended up hitting the cot and leaving to its own devices but after approx 1 hour it had completed a measly 4%.

This thing not only scans for malware but also scans the registry for any errors, defrags the hard drive (if needed), cleans up temp and unnecessary data and checks for any open ports. Now here's the thing, the scanner reported that my hard drive had 172 registry errors and 33492MB of unnecessary data....yes that's 33492Megabytes!!

<snip>

cheers.....JIM[/quote:3hx9jzo0]
Wow! Jimbo, am I reading that right? 33+ gigs of unnecessary data! I've scanned and cleaned machines, many, many, times over the years and don't recall *that* much on an active box. Scary.

Ron

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Jim Hillier
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July 29, 2009 - 3:47 am
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Yes Ron, it's not a misprint....33gigs!! and that is after running reputable cleaners too, I was shocked. I quickly checked to see if the scanner had removed all the restore points or deleted the hibernation file, anything along those lines, but all were still exactly as they were. No personal data was missing, everything normal. Goodness knows what it was they deleted. The scary thing is I would never have known about the extent of the unnecessary data otherwise.

cheers mate....JIM

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David Hartsock
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July 30, 2009 - 1:22 am
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say the program probably deleted all shadow copies. That is THE only way I can imagine 33gigs of unneeded data on the drive, especially knowing Jim and his habits!

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Jim Hillier
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July 30, 2009 - 2:00 am
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Hey Dave, that's what I thought too but aren't the shadow copies retained in system restore? I didn't actually check the amount of space System Restore was using, I just had a look to see if all my restore points were still listed..and they were. Is it possible the shadow copies could have been deleted without removing the list of restore points? Maybe if I had tried to do a system restore I would have received the message....."So sorry but Windows doesn't appear to be able to locate the necessary files.....perhaps we zapped them"

P.S. I see you have changed your siggy.....er, um..what news letter would that be?? OUCH!!....sorry mate, couldn't help myself.

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